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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2013 14:28:58 GMT -5
I'm giving serious consideration to trading my draft pick in the upcoming draft with the intention of either moving down to snag more draft picks or moving down and acquiring participation points. If this interests you PM me. I'm currently set to have the 3rd overall pick and my guess is that's where I'll remain.
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K.
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Post by K. on Dec 16, 2013 15:17:58 GMT -5
IIRC some players will be reserved, so wouldn't you automatically get part points as compensation at the 3rd pick?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2013 16:25:25 GMT -5
I'm not trading the points, I'm keeping my points that I get for that spot. I'm just willing to trade the spot if someone thinks they may want to move up.
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K.
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Post by K. on Dec 17, 2013 8:11:28 GMT -5
So, you can keep the compensation points while trading the pick? Rules don't say anything on that. Commish?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2013 8:26:17 GMT -5
Why would the points have to be attached to the pick if it's traded? My TEAM is what's being punished for being knocked down in the draft. The team acquiring the pick is benefiting from moving up, if they so desire. If I wasn't being knocked down in the draft I most likely wouldn't be TRADING the pick in the first place.
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Post by CSCommish on Dec 17, 2013 10:10:48 GMT -5
Hmm, good question.
My stance would be that if the pick is traded, the compensation points for that particular pick disappear; the team acquiring the pick don't get points (that would be silly) and the team giving up the pick don't get points either.
The purpose of that was to give teams who need draft picks (to get better) are compensated some points because player(s) were reserved (snatched away from them).
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Post by CSCommish on Dec 17, 2013 11:38:30 GMT -5
Hmm, good question. My stance would be that if the pick is traded, the compensation points for that particular pick disappear; the team acquiring the pick don't get points (that would be silly) and the team giving up the pick don't get points either. The purpose of that was to give teams who need draft picks (to get better) are compensated some points because player(s) were reserved (snatched away from them). Only question is how to handle when teams who are slated to be compensated, move up in the draft, into a position where they would still be compensated. Hmm, and actually, there are 5 scenarios really: 1) Team who is not otherwise entitled to compensation, trades pick into a slot where there is no compensation 2) Team who is not otherwise entitled to compensation, trades pick into a slot where there is compensation 3) Team who is otherwise entitled to compensation, trades pick into a slot where there is no compensation 4) Team who is otherwise entitled to compensation, trades pick into a slot where there is less compensation 5) Team who is otherwise entitled to compensation, trades pick into a slot where there is more compensation I'll have to think about it. |
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Post by CSCommish on Dec 17, 2013 11:39:25 GMT -5
The easy answer to scenarios 1 and 2 is that the team does not get compensation points; the question is how to handle scenarios 3, 4 and 5.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2013 17:44:30 GMT -5
Hmm, good question. My stance would be that if the pick is traded, the compensation points for that particular pick disappear; the team acquiring the pick don't get points (that would be silly) and the team giving up the pick don't get points either. The purpose of that was to give teams who need draft picks (to get better) are compensated some points because player(s) were reserved (snatched away from them). The reason for a potential trade in this situation is that A)it looks like 3 players will be reserved and B)I can see 2 other worthy candidates for early selection. The drop between 5 and 6(where I most likely will ESSENTIALLY be picking) is pretty dramatic, granted, this is without me seeing the ratings. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2013 17:48:30 GMT -5
My thoughts are this:
If you're trading a pick from an upcoming draft that's quite a ways out, say a year out, and you have no idea who's being reserved, or how things are going to shake out, that's one thing. But when trading a pick where I've already pretty much established the value of the pick because we are at the end of a season and the draft is upcoming, I think I should have the option to either keep the points or trade them with the pick. The compensation would be commensurate with whether the team acquiring the pick is getting the points or not. I have no desire to move the points, and if I'm going to lose them, I'll just stay put and suffer with the fact that picking 3rd instead of 2nd is going to be a major hit this year with 3 players being reserved. The return for the pick and the points would have to be a lot more than what I'm hoping for in return, just for the pick.
At this point, since I'm already pointing out the flaw in the pick, I'm sure I'll end up hanging on to it, but this year the 3 worst teams are FAR worse than the middle of the pack. Yet the reserving of players is going to really hurt the 3rd team picking. All teams will benefit from part points, but the top 2 teams will get Cepada and Norm Cash, and the 3rd team, myself, will pick from a number of guys that I'm guessing all could go anywhere from 6th to 16th.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2013 17:51:15 GMT -5
All while missing my fan expectations by a mile, and primarily because I lost my top returning starting pitcher for the year, not because of trading off top players.
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Post by CSCommish on Dec 17, 2013 17:51:37 GMT -5
My thoughts are this: If you're trading a pick from an upcoming draft that's quite a ways out, say a year out, and you have no idea who's being reserved, or how things are going to shake out, that's one thing. But when trading a pick where I've already pretty much established the value of the pick because we are at the end of a season and the draft is upcoming, I think I should have the option to either keep the points or trade them with the pick. The compensation would be commensurate with whether the team acquiring the pick is getting the points or not. I have no desire to move the points, and if I'm going to lose them, I'll just stay put and suffer with the fact that picking 3rd instead of 2nd is going to be a major hit this year with 3 players being reserved. The return for the pick and the points would have to be a lot more than what I'm hoping for in return, just for the pick. At this point, since I'm already pointing out the flaw in the pick, I'm sure I'll end up hanging on to it, but this year the 3 worst teams are FAR worse than the middle of the pack. Yet the reserving of players is going to really hurt the 3rd team picking. All teams will benefit from part points, but the top 2 teams will get Cepada and Norm Cash, and the 3rd team, myself, will pick from a number of guys that I'm guessing all could go anywhere from 6th to 16th. fair point, do you have any suggestions for how to handle compensation? I would consider tying the compensation points to the team only, regardless if they have their respective draft pick there. Would keep it very simple. That would give you the option to trade your points equal to the points you would end up being compensated, therefore helping the teams that need the points/talent. |
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Post by CSCommish on Dec 17, 2013 17:54:53 GMT -5
All while missing my fan expectations by a mile, and primarily because I lost my top returning starting pitcher for the year, not because of trading off top players. If you finish with 54 wins (current winning percentage for 154 games), you'll only lose 5 points since the formula was changed because Shale was that bad last season. |
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K.
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Post by K. on Dec 17, 2013 18:34:08 GMT -5
but this year the 3 worst teams are FAR worse than the middle of the pack. Yet the reserving of players is going to really hurt the 3rd team picking. This was always going to be an issue with this franchise player concept. The teams who really need that influx of talent are going to be meagrily compensated for seeing the stars of the future they should be getting to stop being really bad end up on teams who already are good to very good. |
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bigmark
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Post by bigmark on Dec 17, 2013 19:02:58 GMT -5
ah the mess that this franchise idea creates...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2013 19:04:26 GMT -5
If 3 players are reserved, which I'm anticipating, and I have the 3rd pick, which I'm also anticipating, I'll get 30 part points, which is enough to change a 4 star player to a 5 star player, which is basically the compensation I receive for missing out on McCovey, Brooks Robinson, Koufax, Norm Cash or Orlando Cepeda. Koufax, and probably McCovey are guys that will be able to carry a team. The other 3 are guys that will be stars, but not necessarily HOF'ers, assuming no further development. I think you have 2 HOF'ers, 3 potential HOF'ers, and probably multi AS game participants. After that, it's a crapshoot. For a team that is as bad as mine, changing Hazle, from a 4 star to 5 star OF.............I don't know if that is worth it or not. Just talking out loud I guess.
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bigmark
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Post by bigmark on Dec 17, 2013 19:12:37 GMT -5
I say we let the sens have a pass on getting killebrew and scrap franchise...just my idea :-)
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Post by Sha-Le Unique on Dec 17, 2013 19:30:11 GMT -5
I say we let the sens have a pass on getting killebrew and scrap franchise...just my idea :-) Just have Piazza as a guaranteed Met his entire career and I'll live |
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bigmark
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Post by bigmark on Dec 17, 2013 19:38:28 GMT -5
I say we let the sens have a pass on getting killebrew and scrap franchise...just my idea :-) Just have Piazza as a guaranteed Met his entire career and I'll live This^ we could always "dumb" the idea down and let each franchise pick one player and that's that.... |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2013 19:44:24 GMT -5
I like the franchise rule, I just think we need to tighten up the trading of the draft picks. My recommendation would be that if you trade the draft pick prior to the AS break, or for a year that's not the current year, any points associated with the pick go to the team the pick is traded to. If it's after the AS Break, the trading team would have the option to either keep the points or include them.
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Post by soonerfantu on Dec 17, 2013 19:45:22 GMT -5
The idea is fine. Wait until we have several seasons go by when nobody is getting Franchised. Just seems like an issue now, b/c there was lone last year, and will likely be a couple this year. That won't always be the case.
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Post by CSCommish on Dec 17, 2013 20:18:53 GMT -5
I like the franchise rule, I just think we need to tighten up the trading of the draft picks. My recommendation would be that if you trade the draft pick prior to the AS break, or for a year that's not the current year, any points associated with the pick go to the team the pick is traded to. If it's after the AS Break, the trading team would have the option to either keep the points or include them. something to think about. The true test is the upcoming season because of all of the talent that is coming out of that particular draft. |
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K.
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Post by K. on Dec 18, 2013 3:45:34 GMT -5
The idea is fine. Wait until we have several seasons go by when nobody is getting Franchised. Just seems like an issue now, b/c there was lone last year, and will likely be a couple this year. That won't always be the case. It seems like an issue now because it is an issue now. The fact there will be years without any issues doesn't change, make up for or negate the fact we'll have a major issue this year. This just proves that it isn't a bad thing every season as apparently the seasons it isn't being used will be the seasons without any issues, it seems ... |
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Post by soonerfantu on Dec 18, 2013 10:01:59 GMT -5
The idea is fine. Wait until we have several seasons go by when nobody is getting Franchised. Just seems like an issue now, b/c there was lone last year, and will likely be a couple this year. That won't always be the case. It seems like an issue now because it is an issue now. The fact there will be years without any issues doesn't change, make up for or negate the fact we'll have a major issue this year. This just proves that it isn't a bad thing every season as apparently the seasons it isn't being used will be the seasons without any issues, it seems ... The stuff Chris has in place offsets the loss. And since all teams will get to "steal" from others at the top of the draft at some point, it all evens out. If it isn't fair that the Cubs will miss out on whomever this year, it is equally unfair that a team will miss out on whatever player(s) the Cubs take later on. The system may not be perfect, but it's as close as we can reasonably get. This rule, and in turn this league, is really going to suck if the same couple of people are going to bitch about the same couple of rules every season. Either the rule is fine how it is to the point you can tolerate it, or you can leave the league. Chris, stop trying to make everybody happy. You put a lot of thought into the rule, and it works. Figure out what you want to do about the points if the picks are traded, and leave the rest alone. Don't let a vocal few cause you to completely redo a rule that was given thought, and put in the rule book. JMO. |
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bigmark
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Post by bigmark on Dec 18, 2013 12:01:48 GMT -5
Says the person hoping to "steal" koufax this year......
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