Spencer
General Manager 
Posts: 5,920
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Post by Spencer on Jan 29, 2020 11:59:16 GMT -5
Most teams just dont actually value competing. Or are so far from understanding what it takes to compete they dont value useful players.
Denman is a pretty good example. Hes 33. Which means he still has at least 2 useful years left. 7.7 expiring contract with minimal desire for winner. Last 2 years hes 32-19 with a 3.11 ERA.
No interest.
I got 1 offer and it was an overaged 4 star pitching spect.
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bigmark
General Manager
Chicago White Sox
Posts: 6,175
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Post by bigmark on Jan 29, 2020 12:31:16 GMT -5
The league also has way too much talent. Everything thinks they got the players to win.
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Spencer
General Manager
Posts: 5,920
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Post by Spencer on Jan 29, 2020 12:37:23 GMT -5
The league also has way too much talent. Everything thinks they got the players to win. Thats the fallacy tho. Cause they dont. It iant about the league having too much talent. Ratings are relative. Its about people not realizing what they need tk acquire to win. 8 AR starters wont get you anywhere. |
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Matt
Other 
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Post by Matt on Jan 29, 2020 12:41:12 GMT -5
The league also has way too much talent. Everything thinks they got the players to win. Thats the fallacy tho. Cause they dont. It iant about the league having too much talent. Ratings are relative. Its about people not realizing what they need tk acquire to win. 8 AR starters wont get you anywhere. Which is why there is too much talent. When 8 AR pitchers and guys with GOOD ratings are nearly worthless.... |
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bigmark
General Manager
Chicago White Sox
Posts: 6,175
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Roll Call
Jan 29, 2020 12:44:00 GMT -5
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Post by bigmark on Jan 29, 2020 12:44:00 GMT -5
Thats the fallacy tho. Cause they dont. It iant about the league having too much talent. Ratings are relative. Its about people not realizing what they need tk acquire to win. 8 AR starters wont get you anywhere. Which is why there is too much talent. When 8 AR pitchers and guys with GOOD ratings are nearly worthless.... Exactly. Most good ratings guys are nothing but back ups |
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Spencer
General Manager
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Post by Spencer on Jan 29, 2020 12:52:58 GMT -5
Ratings are still relative to each other tho.
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Reddington
General Manager
Atlanta Braves
Posts: 17,853 
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Post by Reddington on Jan 29, 2020 13:23:37 GMT -5
Most teams just dont actually value competing. Or are so far from understanding what it takes to compete they dont value useful players. I was thinking about that, and the file flip points Chris hands out, maybe after 2 loosing seasons you shouldn't get any points, or some reward for at least breaking even. donno how to balance it to make teams want to at least compete without rewarding teams that are on a roll, but it does seem losing is a little too rewarding. |
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Reddington
General Manager
Atlanta Braves
Posts: 17,853
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Post by Reddington on Jan 29, 2020 13:28:18 GMT -5
Which is why there is too much talent. When 8 AR pitchers and guys with GOOD ratings are nearly worthless.... Exactly. Most good ratings guys are nothing but back ups only on the teams with great pitching. Just like IIRL, Avery was a good pitcher, but on the Braves, he was the #4, and became a reliever most years in the playoffs |
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Matt
Other
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Post by Matt on Jan 29, 2020 13:45:39 GMT -5
Which then puts me in the spot I'm in...
My roster is filled with good rated hitters, with G or B walk ratings. Also plenty of G/B ratings in 2B, triples and HR. Yet my offense was barely league average, so I acquire an overpriced brilliant rated hitter to try and punch me into the playoffs.
I didn't make it. Now said hitter has put me over budget on payroll last year and this one, so I can't sign any FA pitchers to fill out my roster. No one wants said hitter and I've got nothing else I can do but trade for pitchers and blow may payroll even higher. If I'm going to lose money, might as well go big and compete!
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dougiejays
General Manager
Toronto Blue Jays
Posts: 4,350
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Post by dougiejays on Jan 29, 2020 14:08:54 GMT -5
Ratings are still relative to each other tho. This is definitely true, which is why I've come down off my stance a couple of years ago that "this league is fucked." But in my opinion, there are still two main problems: 1) Money. I can use a guy like Denman form SF or McGregor from CWS, but I'm right at my budget and so many teams are running up against budget that I'm not confident I can pay for them. In some other leagues you can go for broke and fund it through selling off draft picks/other assets, but acquiring money here is like getting milk from a stone. 2) Prospect talent ratings. It's one thing to have a jacked-up rating system for developed players, because as you say ratings are relative. But what happens with prospects is you get a really thin line between "can't-miss" (GGBB) prospects and "4A-player" (GGGG) prospects. This can make it tough for selling teams to get prospects they're high on and vice versa. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2020 14:55:19 GMT -5
All of this is very interesting. I'm an original GM, as well as a GM from numerous other leagues, but clearly I'd put myself in the "doesn't understand what it takes to win" camp. I've made the playoffs twice. I've never won a WS, in any league. I was having conversation with the Dodgers GM a while back telling him there are GM's in this league with a decided advantage because they've figured out the "bugs" in OOTP5 and they know how to work the system while others don't. Especially with regards to spring training and pitcher duration, and I suspect other things besides duration. I also have a hunch that historically winning teams do better in player development with the engine somehow but I haven't proven that. For a long time I thought amount of pitches and velocity we're key components for starters success. I don't know that I buy that any longer. I thought I was promoting my prospects too soon, now I have no idea. I've been waiting and there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to which prospects make it or don't. I continue to play because I love baseball and these players are all of the guys I've grown up with. But feeling like you're at a disadvantage and never winning does get frustrating. And it has nothing to do with lack of activity, because I'm an active GM, even though I don't trade all the time, primarily because it's difficult and I think it's really just spinning wheels most of the time.
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Spencer
General Manager
Posts: 5,920
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Post by Spencer on Jan 29, 2020 15:10:26 GMT -5
Learning the flaws in the game and using them tonyour advantage is huge.
But mostly its just looking at stats as much as ratings. I feel like guys get too caught up in "this guy should sim better" so they just keep sending him out there.
Also pitching is king. If you dont have 4 10 AR guys you arent really competing. If you scoff at the AP on a stud SP youre probably losing.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2020 15:29:03 GMT -5
Learning the flaws in the game and using them tonyour advantage is huge. But mostly its just looking at stats as much as ratings. I feel like guys get too caught up in "this guy should sim better" so they just keep sending him out there. Also pitching is king. If you dont have 4 10 AR guys you arent really competing. If you scoff at the AP on a stud SP youre probably losing. I've often wondered about the stats over ratings or equal to ratings. Caminiti is a good example. His ratings are fine, nothing mind blowing, but I have lots of guys with similar or better ratings, especially in hits, who don't hit for near the average that he has career to date. Do you think that's also applicable to minor leaguers vs. ratings? Treadway tore up AAA year after year, but I waited for his ratings to catch up, and he's only really a bench guy, but he's been serviceable. I have other AAA guys whose ratings say they aren't ready but are tearing the cover off the ball.
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Spencer
General Manager
Posts: 5,920
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Post by Spencer on Jan 29, 2020 15:57:09 GMT -5
Ok. I never look at minor league stats. Guy could hit 400 at every stop and if hes 6 6 2 2 4 6 he aint gonna do much in HOFFBL.
Some guys play over their ratings consistently. Some play under. I think there are many factors including....
1. Stadium.
2. Lineup Usage. Where they hit in the lineup.
3. Defensive usage. Where they play defensively.
4. Split usage. How often they play vs lefties or righties and if they struggle vs one or the other.
Probably more too but I consider all of these things.
Overall I see things that bug me all the time....
I think there tends to be an over emphasis on speed at the top of the lineup when that player is mediocre at getting on base. Speed is fine but not at the cost of a 325 OBP guy leading off.
Sticking with the superior rated player over the player simming better. Not in all cases but not enough GMs make changes day to day.
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jahallstar
General Manager
Baltimore Orioles
Posts: 963
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Post by jahallstar on Jan 29, 2020 16:12:50 GMT -5
If someone is making more money than I would offer them in FA. I'm not going to try and trade for them. Others don't seem to go by this philosophy and I'm not really sure why. Expiring deal for a 2 month rental..sure.
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dougiejays
General Manager
Toronto Blue Jays
Posts: 4,350
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Post by dougiejays on Jan 29, 2020 16:49:37 GMT -5
Learning the flaws in the game and using them tonyour advantage is huge. But mostly its just looking at stats as much as ratings. I feel like guys get too caught up in "this guy should sim better" so they just keep sending him out there. Also pitching is king. If you dont have 4 10 AR guys you arent really competing. If you scoff at the AP on a stud SP youre probably losing. ...I made the WS without a single 10 run guy (until Russell’s holiday boost got him there). |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2020 17:01:53 GMT -5
Learning the flaws in the game and using them tonyour advantage is huge. But mostly its just looking at stats as much as ratings. I feel like guys get too caught up in "this guy should sim better" so they just keep sending him out there. Also pitching is king. If you dont have 4 10 AR guys you arent really competing. If you scoff at the AP on a stud SP youre probably losing. What is the "AP on a stud SP"  |
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Spencer
General Manager
Posts: 5,920
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Post by Spencer on Jan 29, 2020 17:09:59 GMT -5
If someone is making more money than I would offer them in FA. I'm not going to try and trade for them. Others don't seem to go by this philosophy and I'm not really sure why. Expiring deal for a 2 month rental..sure. This seems like common sense to me. Nkt sure if there is a particular player youre thinking of tho. |
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Spencer
General Manager
Posts: 5,920
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Post by Spencer on Jan 29, 2020 17:10:42 GMT -5
Learning the flaws in the game and using them tonyour advantage is huge. But mostly its just looking at stats as much as ratings. I feel like guys get too caught up in "this guy should sim better" so they just keep sending him out there. Also pitching is king. If you dont have 4 10 AR guys you arent really competing. If you scoff at the AP on a stud SP youre probably losing. ...I made the WS without a single 10 run guy (until Russell’s holiday boost got him there). Its obviously possible because it happened. Its unlikely imo tho. |
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Spencer
General Manager
Posts: 5,920
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Post by Spencer on Jan 29, 2020 17:10:58 GMT -5
Learning the flaws in the game and using them tonyour advantage is huge. But mostly its just looking at stats as much as ratings. I feel like guys get too caught up in "this guy should sim better" so they just keep sending him out there. Also pitching is king. If you dont have 4 10 AR guys you arent really competing. If you scoff at the AP on a stud SP youre probably losing. What is the "AP on a stud SP" Asking price on a stud starting pitcher. |
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dougiejays
General Manager
Toronto Blue Jays
Posts: 4,350
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Post by dougiejays on Jan 29, 2020 17:29:04 GMT -5
...I made the WS without a single 10 run guy (until Russell’s holiday boost got him there). Its obviously possible because it happened. Its unlikely imo tho. To be fair there’s a pretty big disparity between the leagues. Most of the 10-run guys are in the NL. No wonder the AL hits better. |
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Reddington
General Manager
Atlanta Braves
Posts: 17,853
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Post by Reddington on Jan 29, 2020 17:31:27 GMT -5
All of this is very interesting. I'm an original GM, as well as a GM from numerous other leagues, but clearly I'd put myself in the "doesn't understand what it takes to win" camp. I've made the playoffs twice. I've never won a WS, in any league. I was having conversation with the Dodgers GM a while back telling him there are GM's in this league with a decided advantage because they've figured out the "bugs" in OOTP5 and they know how to work the system while others don't. Especially with regards to spring training and pitcher duration, and I suspect other things besides duration. Only reason I know about this one is cause Break and Shale were talking about it in one of the threads, but it's like this, in ST file minimize velocity and maximize stamina, and pitching duration will go up. Some have claimed velocity will go up, but I've never seen that happen, and for the most part I'm afraid to use the above hack. But this is how people flip MR to starters, and how the old dodger guy made Henke into a SP. I've heard Spenser does the same, but I've never talked to him about it or looked, so it's only hearsay. Afaik there is no other "hack" for improving pitchers. Ive never seen any evidence of this, but in all of my simming when I first got into ootp5 to learn the game, I found the playoff to be a crap shoot. WC teams make the playoffs on a regular bases and the most dominant team goes down in flames just as often. I made a joke about it back when Break had 120+ wins with a couple weeks to go leading the league by a mile, and sure enough OOTP5 shot him a bird and he didn't make it to the WS they do have a mild impact. tested it for Chris back when the old LA GM suggested being to be able to buy a 3rd or 4th pitch No idea on promoting too soon, my approach is if they are HOFFL ready I'll promote them, unless I am playing with salaries which is why I waited an extra season to promote Murph. I haven't seen any evidence it hurts or help them when they came out. I rushed Smoltz and Maddux by a season each, but that's just me being a dumbass trying to get them to 300 wins each. I'm in hog heaven right now as the last few years and up till about 93 is when I was a baseball fanatic, and I'm one of the guys that will keep playing guys just to get stats cause I like seeing my guys do well. Spence and a few others are probably correct, you are better off having your best guy for OBP as your leadoff, but I like steals so I put Gene as my leadoff for years batting .222 but 70-90 stolen bases each year. I tend to like speed and defence, though I assembled what should be a team that good for hits and should nail HR at an apocalyptic pace, yet I tend to be a bottom dweller in offencive production. The only stat I do well in is team steals when it comes to my hitters. |
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Reddington
General Manager
Atlanta Braves
Posts: 17,853
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Post by Reddington on Jan 29, 2020 17:32:23 GMT -5
Its obviously possible because it happened. Its unlikely imo tho. To be fair there’s a pretty big disparity between the leagues. Most of the 10-run guys are in the NL. No wonder the AL hits better. I think it's a 3-1 ratio, for every stud pitcher in the AL, there's 3 in the NL |
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Spencer
General Manager
Posts: 5,920
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Post by Spencer on Jan 29, 2020 18:07:11 GMT -5
To be fair there’s a pretty big disparity between the leagues. Most of the 10-run guys are in the NL. No wonder the AL hits better. I think it's a 3-1 ratio, for every stud pitcher in the AL, there's 3 in the NL I love my staff and its the 3rd best in the NL. I only look at my regular season competition. I havent needed to worry about the AL until this year. |
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Spencer
General Manager
Posts: 5,920
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Post by Spencer on Jan 29, 2020 18:07:45 GMT -5
All of this is very interesting. I'm an original GM, as well as a GM from numerous other leagues, but clearly I'd put myself in the "doesn't understand what it takes to win" camp. I've made the playoffs twice. I've never won a WS, in any league. I was having conversation with the Dodgers GM a while back telling him there are GM's in this league with a decided advantage because they've figured out the "bugs" in OOTP5 and they know how to work the system while others don't. Especially with regards to spring training and pitcher duration, and I suspect other things besides duration. Only reason I know about this one is cause Break and Shale were talking about it in one of the threads, but it's like this, in ST file minimize velocity and maximize stamina, and pitching duration will go up. Some have claimed velocity will go up, but I've never seen that happen, and for the most part I'm afraid to use the above hack. But this is how people flip MR to starters, and how the old dodger guy made Henke into a SP. I've heard Spenser does the same, but I've never talked to him about it or looked, so it's only hearsay. Afaik there is no other "hack" for improving pitchers. Ive never seen any evidence of this, but in all of my simming when I first got into ootp5 to learn the game, I found the playoff to be a crap shoot. WC teams make the playoffs on a regular bases and the most dominant team goes down in flames just as often. I made a joke about it back when Break had 120+ wins with a couple weeks to go leading the league by a mile, and sure enough OOTP5 shot him a bird and he didn't make it to the WS they do have a mild impact. tested it for Chris back when the old LA GM suggested being to be able to buy a 3rd or 4th pitch No idea on promoting too soon, my approach is if they are HOFFL ready I'll promote them, unless I am playing with salaries which is why I waited an extra season to promote Murph. I haven't seen any evidence it hurts or help them when they came out. I rushed Smoltz and Maddux by a season each, but that's just me being a dumbass trying to get them to 300 wins each. I'm in hog heaven right now as the last few years and up till about 93 is when I was a baseball fanatic, and I'm one of the guys that will keep playing guys just to get stats cause I like seeing my guys do well. Spence and a few others are probably correct, you are better off having your best guy for OBP as your leadoff, but I like steals so I put Gene as my leadoff for years batting .222 but 70-90 stolen bases each year. I tend to like speed and defence, though I assembled what should be a team that good for hits and should nail HR at an apocalyptic pace, yet I tend to be a bottom dweller in offencive production. The only stat I do well in is team steals when it comes to my hitters. There is always more than 1 way to win. I just cant fathom a 320 OBP guy getting 600 PAs. |
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