1990 Amateur Draft Discussion

[CSCommish]

Will post file shortly this morning. Pls send gripes.

[Spencer]

My only gripe is that the file isn't uploaded

[CSCommish]

File is up. Potential ratings are set and ready for griping. I just need to check the actual (number) ratings for pitchers and I will be done, but I will do that offline.

[Danchevy]

Think you need to do a quick review of the relievers. Just in the sense that quite a few of the closers have been given or left with "E" starter duration.

Examples, troy percival, bob wickman, eddie guardado. Just by looking quickly those guys starters a few games the first season or two of their careers but then were exclusively bullpen guys for the next 10+ seasons. Dont think that warrents starter duration, as it only floods the league with more starting pitching.

Just my thoughts.

[Reddington]

Feb 2, 2020 13:31:31 GMT -5 Danchevy said:

Think you need to do a quick review of the relievers. Just in the sense that quite a few of the closers have been given or left with "E" starter duration.

Examples, troy percival, bob wickman, eddie guardado. Just by looking quickly those guys starters a few games the first season or two of their careers but then were exclusively bullpen guys for the next 10+ seasons. Dont think that warrents starter duration, as it only floods the league with more starting pitching.

Just my thoughts.

doing the draft file is still a work in progress for me, did def this time though, so hopefully won't be near the grips on those.  Next season I'll try and be more aware of SP ratings for clearly just relievers.

[Danchevy]

Feb 2, 2020 13:34:04 GMT -5 Reddington said:

Feb 2, 2020 13:31:31 GMT -5 Danchevy said:

Think you need to do a quick review of the relievers. Just in the sense that quite a few of the closers have been given or left with "E" starter duration.

Examples, troy percival, bob wickman, eddie guardado. Just by looking quickly those guys starters a few games the first season or two of their careers but then were exclusively bullpen guys for the next 10+ seasons. Dont think that warrents starter duration, as it only floods the league with more starting pitching.

Just my thoughts.

doing the draft file is still a work in progress for me, did def this time though, so hopefully won't be near the grips on those.  Next season I'll try and be more aware of SP ratings for clearly just relievers.

I figured it was just something that simply got overlooked

As much as it would benefit me leaving those guys as is since im picking at #10, i would rather not see the league get inflated with a bunch more starters.

[CSCommish]

Feb 2, 2020 13:31:31 GMT -5 Danchevy said:

Think you need to do a quick review of the relievers. Just in the sense that quite a few of the closers have been given or left with "E" starter duration.

Examples, troy percival, bob wickman, eddie guardado. Just by looking quickly those guys starters a few games the first season or two of their careers but then were exclusively bullpen guys for the next 10+ seasons. Dont think that warrents starter duration, as it only floods the league with more starting pitching.

Just my thoughts.

I'm fine with removing their SP duration, especially Percival --- I missed him when I made him CL from MR. Wickman and Guardado only started a handful of games in their early career(s).

[CSCommish]

Feb 2, 2020 13:34:04 GMT -5 Reddington said:

Feb 2, 2020 13:31:31 GMT -5 Danchevy said:

Think you need to do a quick review of the relievers. Just in the sense that quite a few of the closers have been given or left with "E" starter duration.

Examples, troy percival, bob wickman, eddie guardado. Just by looking quickly those guys starters a few games the first season or two of their careers but then were exclusively bullpen guys for the next 10+ seasons. Dont think that warrents starter duration, as it only floods the league with more starting pitching.

Just my thoughts.

doing the draft file is still a work in progress for me, did def this time though, so hopefully won't be near the grips on those.  Next season I'll try and be more aware of SP ratings for clearly just relievers.

To save time, I just check the relievers with 2.5 stars are greater and check B-R for how many games they started in their careers. I had removed 80% of relievers' starter duration, but missed Percival obviously. Question is where to draw the line. I'd like to be consistent and maybe post it in the constitution so we have it there for reference.

[Reddington]

Feb 2, 2020 13:40:18 GMT -5 CSCommish said:

Feb 2, 2020 13:34:04 GMT -5 Reddington said:

doing the draft file is still a work in progress for me, did def this time though, so hopefully won't be near the grips on those.  Next season I'll try and be more aware of SP ratings for clearly just relievers.

To save time, I just check the relievers with 2.5 stars are greater and check B-R for how many games they started in their careers. I had removed 80% of relievers' starter duration, but missed Percival obviously. Question is where to draw the line. I'd like to be consistent and maybe post it in the constitution so we have it there for reference.

I think Dan's suggestion is pretty good, something like SP has to be > 20% of their seasons

[Danchevy]

Just inquiring on Chippers ratings. Not exactly sure what ratings Chris uses for players I'm the league but he seems a bit inflated.

I can justify the brilliant hits given the .303 career average. But brilliant in homers seems like a bit of a stretch. He only had 3-4 seasons with over 35 homers. Averaged 30 in his career. Just seems like a stretch for brilliant.

Again not sure what standardized numbers are used here. I thought average which be higher them .303 career and homers higher then 30 per season. If you want to give.him the benefit for one that's fine but both seems unnecessary.

Just my two cents.

[Reddington]

Chris has it set as 30+ is brilliant for homers, and in cases of extended careers it's based on 8+ seasons avg (looking to see if any of those were injury shortened etc). Otherwise there would never be another brill hit batter other than someone that played a couple years and got hurt. Same reason frank thomas, barry bonds, ivan rodriguez etc were bril hit batters

[Boston Red Sox]

Feb 3, 2020 14:06:40 GMT -5 Danchevy said:

Just inquiring on Chippers ratings. Not exactly sure what ratings Chris uses for players I'm the league but he seems a bit inflated.

I can justify the brilliant hits given the .303 career average. But brilliant in homers seems like a bit of a stretch. He only had 3-4 seasons with over 35 homers. Averaged 30 in his career. Just seems like a stretch for brilliant.

Again not sure what standardized numbers are used here. I thought average which be higher them .303 career and homers higher then 30 per season. If you want to give.him the benefit for one that's fine but both seems unnecessary.

Just my two cents.

Lol you're such a shitstirrer.

He's brilliant by the ratings lmfao most leagues run 28-30hr avg gets brilliant now

[Deleted]

Posada is inflated, which seems pretty typical for HOF Yankees in this league. He's a lifetime .273 batting average, which is AVG. .287 is the breaking point for GOOD. He hit over .287 once and HIT .287 once. Also, he averaged 34 doubles, which is GOOD, not BR. 42 is the spot for BR. Should also only be GOOD in walks and FAIR in K's. If you want to make him a good player, that's what we have a point system for.

Greer should only be GOOD in doubles, GOOD in walks. He was a very good player. He wasn't a superstar. A lot of our inflation problem is we're clearly inflating guys in draft classes to make it so they're viable for HOFFBL, and then, we have POINTS to make them even better, which ends up deflating the entire point system. Or inflating, however you look at it.

Chipper should be GOOD/GOOD/BR/BR/AVG. I don't care about Break's trade. Should have thought about edit's before making it. I'm also going through all of the guys, just not the guy you traded for. Just to run interference ahead of time here.

Durham should be AVG in hits, lifetime .277, GOOD in doubles, AVG in walks. Also, not sure where we're getting an A defensively at 2B. He should be C, and C- if we're being honest.

I can make an argument that Burnitz' doubles should be AVG, but it's close. His K's should definitely be FAIR and not AVG.

Rondell's doubles should be GOOD, walks should be FAIR. He honestly played a decent CF, probably a C+

Lansing's hits should be AVG, doubles GOOD, homers FAIR, K's GOOD.

Every player I've looked at has been inflated. I'm not trying to point fingers at Brian, trying to point out for all of you that keep complaining about the over inflation of the league, herein lies your problem.

[Boston Red Sox]

I offered him full well knowing he was gonna be all brilliant because I do drafts too

[Boston Red Sox]

Feb 3, 2020 16:07:59 GMT -5 @cubsgm said:

Posada is inflated, which seems pretty typical for HOF Yankees in this league. He's a lifetime .273 batting average, which is AVG. .287 is the breaking point for GOOD. He hit over .287 once and HIT .287 once. Also, he averaged 34 doubles, which is GOOD, not BR. 42 is the spot for BR. Should also only be GOOD in walks and FAIR in K's. If you want to make him a good player, that's what we have a point system for.

Agreed on hits should be avg. I think with 8 year peaks he might get B doubles

[Boston Red Sox]

Oh also guys I'm here to gripe about the player already traded because i know it'll get a reaction. 

[Deleted]

Feb 3, 2020 16:11:33 GMT -5 Boston Red Sox said:

Feb 3, 2020 16:07:59 GMT -5 @cubsgm said:

Posada is inflated, which seems pretty typical for HOF Yankees in this league. He's a lifetime .273 batting average, which is AVG. .287 is the breaking point for GOOD. He hit over .287 once and HIT .287 once. Also, he averaged 34 doubles, which is GOOD, not BR. 42 is the spot for BR. Should also only be GOOD in walks and FAIR in K's. If you want to make him a good player, that's what we have a point system for.

Agreed on hits should be avg. I think with 8 year peaks he might get B doubles

He had two seasons out of 17 which would have been considered BR in doubles. TWO.

[Deleted]

I think a lot of the problem with the over inflation of players in this league isn't just the point system, but the fact that we're clearly not using the OOTP5 ratings chart anymore when we're modifying players, and the two things together have made it to where it is. My guess is if we had just modified and not had participation points things would have turned out pretty good, as long as we had some sort of system in place for reversals.

[Danchevy]

Feb 3, 2020 14:24:02 GMT -5 Reddington said:

Chris has it set as 30+ is brilliant for homers, and in cases of extended careers it's based on 8+ seasons avg (looking to see if any of those were injury shortened etc). Otherwise there would never be another brill hit batter other than someone that played a couple years and got hurt. Same reason frank thomas, barry bonds, ivan rodriguez etc were bril hit batters

Totally fair, like I said I didn't know the specific numbers for each rating. I just felt like he got the benefit due to his name. If that's not the case then obviously I have no problem with the ratings.

[Reddington]

Feb 3, 2020 16:47:50 GMT -5 Danchevy said:

Feb 3, 2020 14:24:02 GMT -5 Reddington said:

Chris has it set as 30+ is brilliant for homers, and in cases of extended careers it's based on 8+ seasons avg (looking to see if any of those were injury shortened etc). Otherwise there would never be another brill hit batter other than someone that played a couple years and got hurt. Same reason frank thomas, barry bonds, ivan rodriguez etc were bril hit batters

Totally fair, like I said I didn't know the specific numbers for each rating. I just felt like he got the benefit due to his name. If that's not the case then obviously I have no problem with the ratings.

nah, I have the sheet around here for the ratings Chris uses, and went by them for doing the draft.  I'll look at the guys mark posted about to see if I was seeing double when I did them.  As for Chipper, I knew what his ratings would be when Jessica asked about the trade, based on the sheet Chris uses and his telling me how to look at players

[Reddington]

Feb 3, 2020 16:07:59 GMT -5 @cubsgm said:

Posada is inflated, which seems pretty typical for HOF Yankees in this league. He's a lifetime .273 batting average, which is AVG. .287 is the breaking point for GOOD. He hit over .287 once and HIT .287 once. Also, he averaged 34 doubles, which is GOOD, not BR. 42 is the spot for BR. Should also only be GOOD in walks and FAIR in K's. If you want to make him a good player, that's what we have a point system for.

Greer should only be GOOD in doubles, GOOD in walks. He was a very good player. He wasn't a superstar. A lot of our inflation problem is we're clearly inflating guys in draft classes to make it so they're viable for HOFFBL, and then, we have POINTS to make them even better, which ends up deflating the entire point system. Or inflating, however you look at it.

Chipper should be GOOD/GOOD/BR/BR/AVG. I don't care about Break's trade. Should have thought about edit's before making it. I'm also going through all of the guys, just not the guy you traded for. Just to run interference ahead of time here.

Durham should be AVG in hits, lifetime .277, GOOD in doubles, AVG in walks. Also, not sure where we're getting an A defensively at 2B. He should be C, and C- if we're being honest.

I can make an argument that Burnitz' doubles should be AVG, but it's close. His K's should definitely be FAIR and not AVG.

Rondell's doubles should be GOOD, walks should be FAIR. He honestly played a decent CF, probably a C+

Lansing's hits should be AVG, doubles GOOD, homers FAIR, K's GOOD.

Every player I've looked at has been inflated. I'm not trying to point fingers at Brian, trying to point out for all of you that keep complaining about the over inflation of the league, herein lies your problem.

posada had a .286 avg over 8 seasons, and Chris' rating for good is .280-.310 which is why he was good for hits, as for doubles, yep I was a tad off on that, he was low on doubles, he should only be good.



Greer got his rating on doubles because on the seasons he didn't play all the games his production up to that point was the same as the season he was a full time player hitting > 34 doubles a season.



Chipper's ratings are exactly the ratings anyone else with his stats would have got on any of the drafts I've done or helped Chris with.
  Rating a guy that had 8 seasons > .310 including one batting .367 as a good hitter just because he had a long career and fell down to .303 is ridiculous 


Durham hits are good for the same reason posada's are



Burnitz ext stats poots him at 132 SO per 162 and Chris has that as Avg

etc

[Boston Red Sox]

I appreciate the time you've put into drafts here lately brian. Now come to xib and do it there lol

[Deleted]

Feb 3, 2020 17:50:17 GMT -5 Reddington said:

Feb 3, 2020 16:07:59 GMT -5 @cubsgm said:

Posada is inflated, which seems pretty typical for HOF Yankees in this league. He's a lifetime .273 batting average, which is AVG. .287 is the breaking point for GOOD. He hit over .287 once and HIT .287 once. Also, he averaged 34 doubles, which is GOOD, not BR. 42 is the spot for BR. Should also only be GOOD in walks and FAIR in K's. If you want to make him a good player, that's what we have a point system for.

Greer should only be GOOD in doubles, GOOD in walks. He was a very good player. He wasn't a superstar. A lot of our inflation problem is we're clearly inflating guys in draft classes to make it so they're viable for HOFFBL, and then, we have POINTS to make them even better, which ends up deflating the entire point system. Or inflating, however you look at it.

Chipper should be GOOD/GOOD/BR/BR/AVG. I don't care about Break's trade. Should have thought about edit's before making it. I'm also going through all of the guys, just not the guy you traded for. Just to run interference ahead of time here.

Durham should be AVG in hits, lifetime .277, GOOD in doubles, AVG in walks. Also, not sure where we're getting an A defensively at 2B. He should be C, and C- if we're being honest.

I can make an argument that Burnitz' doubles should be AVG, but it's close. His K's should definitely be FAIR and not AVG.

Rondell's doubles should be GOOD, walks should be FAIR. He honestly played a decent CF, probably a C+

Lansing's hits should be AVG, doubles GOOD, homers FAIR, K's GOOD.

Every player I've looked at has been inflated. I'm not trying to point fingers at Brian, trying to point out for all of you that keep complaining about the over inflation of the league, herein lies your problem.

posada had a .286 avg over 8 seasons, and Chris' rating for good is .280-.310 which is why he was good for hits, as for doubles, yep I was a tad off on that, he was low on doubles, he should only be good.



Greer got his rating on doubles because on the seasons he didn't play all the games his production up to that point was the same as the season he was a full time player hitting > 34 doubles a season.



Chipper's ratings are exactly the ratings anyone else with his stats would have got on any of the drafts I've done or helped Chris with.
  Rating a guy that had 8 seasons > .310 including one batting .367 as a good hitter just because he had a long career and fell down to .303 is ridiculous 


Durham hits are good for the same reason posada's are



Burnitz ext stats poots him at 132 SO per 162 and Chris has that as Avg

etc

Then there’s a difference between Chris’ ratings and thee OOTP chart that’s posted, which also is leading to chronic player inflation. .287 is good on the chart. Not .280. Posada hit .287 once and over .287 once. In 17 years. In this league if u make him average someone will spend the necessary points to make him good regardless. But those points spent are points that can’t be spent on other players, hence working back to a state of ratings realism.

[Reddington]

Feb 3, 2020 18:05:08 GMT -5 Boston Red Sox said:

I appreciate the time you've put into drafts here lately brian. Now come to xib and do it there lol

if I ever do any other drafts it'll be as a commish doing basically a hybrid of hoffbl.  Won't be doing that though for a while, since we still have at least 5 years before we get close on real life years here.  Doing draft classes are horrible and I feel for you and Shale doing them in your leagues .

[Reddington]

Feb 3, 2020 18:13:39 GMT -5 @cubsgm said:

Feb 3, 2020 17:50:17 GMT -5 Reddington said:

posada had a .286 avg over 8 seasons, and Chris' rating for good is .280-.310 which is why he was good for hits, as for doubles, yep I was a tad off on that, he was low on doubles, he should only be good.



Greer got his rating on doubles because on the seasons he didn't play all the games his production up to that point was the same as the season he was a full time player hitting > 34 doubles a season.



Chipper's ratings are exactly the ratings anyone else with his stats would have got on any of the drafts I've done or helped Chris with.
  Rating a guy that had 8 seasons > .310 including one batting .367 as a good hitter just because he had a long career and fell down to .303 is ridiculous 


Durham hits are good for the same reason posada's are



Burnitz ext stats poots him at 132 SO per 162 and Chris has that as Avg

etc

Then there’s a difference between Chris’ ratings and thee OOTP chart that’s posted, which also is leading to chronic player inflation. .287 is good on the chart. Not .280. Posada hit .287 once and over .287 once. In 17 years. In this league if u make him average someone will spend the necessary points to make him good regardless. But those points spent are points that can’t be spent on other players, hence working back to a state of ratings realism.

Maybe so, but we're 46 yrs into him doing it this way

That said, I was kinda happy to see the last two draft classes were not as good as the previous years