dougiejays
General Manager 
Toronto Blue Jays
Posts: 4,350 
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Post by dougiejays on Apr 15, 2020 13:10:59 GMT -5
Just looked it up and his 7-year average is 34.1 HR and 37.3 2B. Seems like he deserves a B rating in one or the other to indicate extra-base power. Hmm, I assumed it was Good. Brian, can you check? edited my post |
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Reddington
General Manager
Atlanta Braves
Posts: 17,853
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Post by Reddington on Apr 15, 2020 13:26:37 GMT -5
Just looked it up and his 7-year average is 34.1 HR and 37.3 2B. Seems like he deserves a B rating in one or the other to indicate extra-base power. Hmm, I assumed it was Good. Brian, can you check? sure, went for a bike ride, just got back  |
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Post by Boston Red Sox on Apr 15, 2020 13:30:16 GMT -5
Why is Manny an A defender? Shawn Green's peak was short, but he was a Brilliant power hitter from '98-'02. Manny was never actually a poor defender. At his worst he was slightly below average and in Cleveland he was a good right fielder |
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jahallstar
General Manager
Baltimore Orioles
Posts: 963
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Post by jahallstar on Apr 15, 2020 13:34:08 GMT -5
Manny was a poor defender. His stats are not as bad as he was out there....but he was probably one of the worst 30 everyday outfielders defensively of all time. They eye test shows you that.
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Reddington
General Manager
Atlanta Braves
Posts: 17,853
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Post by Reddington on Apr 15, 2020 13:46:17 GMT -5
Why is Manny an A defender? Shawn Green's peak was short, but he was a Brilliant power hitter from '98-'02. I didn't downgrade imported ratings and remember that is range not fielding. I just added def positions and checked their range against league avg and worked off of that. as for Green yeah he should be GBABGA |
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Post by Boston Red Sox on Apr 15, 2020 13:52:54 GMT -5
Manny was a poor defender. His stats are not as bad as he was out there....but he was probably one of the worst 30 everyday outfielders defensively of all time. They eye test shows you that. nope. I'll take sabermetrics. they show that he was slightly above average in Cleveland and slightly below average in Boston |
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jahallstar
General Manager
Baltimore Orioles
Posts: 963
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Post by jahallstar on Apr 15, 2020 14:01:39 GMT -5
Manny was a poor defender. His stats are not as bad as he was out there....but he was probably one of the worst 30 everyday outfielders defensively of all time. They eye test shows you that. nope. I'll take sabermetrics. they show that he was slightly above average in Cleveland and slightly below average in Boston You need to go see your eye doctor as soon as they say it is safe. |
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Reddington
General Manager
Atlanta Braves
Posts: 17,853
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Post by Reddington on Apr 15, 2020 14:02:31 GMT -5
Manny was a poor defender. His stats are not as bad as he was out there....but he was probably one of the worst 30 everyday outfielders defensively of all time. They eye test shows you that. he was an a slightly below avg defender if he got his glove on it (carrer .978 fielding% RF and LF and avg for those years was .980 LF / .985 RF), but his range should be E for LF and D for RF |
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Reddington
General Manager
Atlanta Braves
Posts: 17,853
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Post by Reddington on Apr 15, 2020 14:03:37 GMT -5
I think what you are thinking of Jah is his lumbering trying to get to the ball |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2020 14:03:53 GMT -5
Few things, when I did draft classes for this league it was per 550AB's or 140 innings pitched.
Cirillo should be good in hits, not brilliant. In no world is Manny an A or B defender in OF. C is a stretch IMO.
Pettitte should be loyal. I thought Shawn Green was underrated at first glance, he did win a gold glove, I remember
him being a better defender than what is shown, but when I looked at his range ratings on baseball reference, they
weren't great. I still think he's better then he's rated here defensively. I can also make the BR doubles rating
for him.
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jahallstar
General Manager
Baltimore Orioles
Posts: 963
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Post by jahallstar on Apr 15, 2020 14:11:04 GMT -5
I think what you are thinking of Jah is his lumbering trying to get to the ball Yes he was a bad defensive OF. I didn't say he couldn't play catch with his son. |
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Reddington
General Manager
Atlanta Braves
Posts: 17,853
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Post by Reddington on Apr 15, 2020 14:12:12 GMT -5
Few things, when I did draft classes for this league it was per 550AB's or 140 innings pitched. the ratings are based off of 550 ab, didn't see the number the IP are. did the math a few times, and even including 8 seasons he still had a batting avg above .315 already posted what his corrected potential should be and sent it to Chris agreed already posted what his corrected batting potential should be and sent it to Chris. I'll look at his glove too now. |
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jahallstar
General Manager
Baltimore Orioles
Posts: 963
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Post by jahallstar on Apr 15, 2020 14:16:24 GMT -5
Mike Lieberthal should be good in hits imo. He batted .283 from 1999 to the end of his career.
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Matt
Other 
Posts: 5,757
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Post by Matt on Apr 15, 2020 14:18:24 GMT -5
Mike Lieberthal should be good in hits imo. He batted .283 from 1999 to the end of his career. I wondered about him as well, but didn't have the time to look into the stats. |
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Post by CSCommish on Apr 15, 2020 14:22:41 GMT -5
So what do you base it on? There is no real basis? Just fly by the pants? lol I know others used to use per 162 stats. When you click on multiple seasons, like the 7-year average, on baseball-reference, it will give you average rates over the course of that time period. Whether it is 100 games or 162 games, is irrelevant because we're looking at rates, not totals. Of course, if we find a player averaged only say 50 games over a 7-year period, we're going to downgrade, because clearly that player did not have the talent to get the regular playing time. Remembering now that for batters we take the 7 year average and look at PA. If the range averages 500 to 600 PA we just go with the averages displayed below. When out of the range then we look at the stat average and prorate to 550 PA. |
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Post by CSCommish on Apr 15, 2020 14:23:52 GMT -5
But if well below 550 pa then we will adjust down accordingly to reflect that the player was not very good. Just a smell test at that point.
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jahallstar
General Manager
Baltimore Orioles
Posts: 963
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Post by jahallstar on Apr 15, 2020 14:23:53 GMT -5
Matt Lawton should be good in doubles I think...from 97-03
Doug Glanville in the same years had a .281 average which should be good in hits.
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redsgm
Other
Cincinnati Reds
Posts: 282
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Post by redsgm on Apr 15, 2020 14:29:23 GMT -5
Shigetoshi Hasegawa- Loyalty to Average
Mike Sweeney- Loyalty to Loyal
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Post by CSCommish on Apr 15, 2020 14:34:30 GMT -5
Few things, when I did draft classes for this league it was per 550AB's or 140 innings pitched. Cirillo should be good in hits, not brilliant. In no world is Manny an A or B defender in OF. C is a stretch IMO. Pettitte should be loyal. I thought Shawn Green was underrated at first glance, he did win a gold glove, I remember him being a better defender than what is shown, but when I looked at his range ratings on baseball reference, they weren't great. I still think he's better then he's rated here defensively. I can also make the BR doubles rating for him. I guess the question then is if we all agree on the 7-year average based on 550 PA, and the 2B/HR/BB/SO ratings look OK, what should a Brilliant batting average be? .310 in Shale's chart is too low. .315 is better but is debatable if we think Cirillo doesn't deserve Brilliant. What number should it be? Keep in mind that Cirillo batted between .313 and .326 6x Should we list players who we think are Brilliant through the smell/eye test and see what their averages are over 7 years? |
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Post by Boston Red Sox on Apr 15, 2020 14:38:16 GMT -5
Few things, when I did draft classes for this league it was per 550AB's or 140 innings pitched. Cirillo should be good in hits, not brilliant. In no world is Manny an A or B defender in OF. C is a stretch IMO. Pettitte should be loyal. I thought Shawn Green was underrated at first glance, he did win a gold glove, I remember him being a better defender than what is shown, but when I looked at his range ratings on baseball reference, they weren't great. I still think he's better then he's rated here defensively. I can also make the BR doubles rating for him. I guess the question then is if we all agree on the 7-year average based on 550 PA, and the 2B/HR/BB/SO ratings look OK, what should a Brilliant batting average be? .310 in Shale's chart is too low. .315 is better but is debatable if we think Cirillo doesn't deserve Brilliant. What number should it be? Keep in mind that Cirillo batted between .313 and .326 6x Should we list players who we think are Brilliant through the smell/eye test and see what their averages are over 7 years? he deserves the brilliant. we're gonna go through this again with Rusty Greer in a few years |
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Spencer
General Manager
Posts: 5,920
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Post by Spencer on Apr 15, 2020 14:39:39 GMT -5
We should do numbers unless we disagree and then eye test unless we disagree.
Thats what Im getting from this thread.
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Post by CSCommish on Apr 15, 2020 14:42:46 GMT -5
So Greer was a .305 hitter in his entire career. When looking at his best 7-year run, it is .307 to .309, depending on which 7 years we use. When looking at his best 7 years, it's .311. So no matter how friendly we make it, he's still Good under our new .315 Brilliant rating. Maybe under Shale's chart, it'd be Brilliant?
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dougiejays
General Manager
Toronto Blue Jays
Posts: 4,350
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Post by dougiejays on Apr 15, 2020 14:47:17 GMT -5
Cirillo looks good actually. A great singles hitter in his prime who wasn't much good at anything anything else and wasn't actually very good overall. Seems like exactly what a BGFA rating will lead to.
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Reddington
General Manager
Atlanta Braves
Posts: 17,853
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Post by Reddington on Apr 15, 2020 14:49:54 GMT -5
Mike Lieberthal should be good in hits imo. He batted .283 from 1999 to the end of his career. has to be 7 seasons over 100 games for "best 7" and he isn't above .280 then he also only had 7 seasons with 100 games |
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jahallstar
General Manager
Baltimore Orioles
Posts: 963
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Post by jahallstar on Apr 15, 2020 14:58:54 GMT -5
Mike Lieberthal should be good in hits imo. He batted .283 from 1999 to the end of his career. has to be 7 seasons over 100 games for "best 7" and he isn't above .280 then he also only had 7 seasons with 100 games His last 9 seasons he played 902 games and batted .281
If you take his only 7 seasons where he played over 100 games then he battered .280 for his career. are you saying if a player never has a streak of 7 strait seasons where he played 100 games he has to go by career numbers only?
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